In Conversation: With Emma

TW - Rape

New series alert!! I want you to meet my friends. And I want you to hear their thoughts because they're all incredible. This post is more like a transcript of a podcast than my others but please read it, there are so many important themes/ideas/conversations that we discuss. And also because I love Emma and I think you should all read what she has to say.

Emma is one of the loveliest people you'll ever meet. She can appear quiet at first, a little introspective and a tad reserved. In her words "I take 2-3 business months to warm up to people". When you get to know her she will make you laugh so hard that you pee a little, she says she isn't affectionate but she always tells you she loves you when she says goodbye. She's incredibly kind, not in an overt sense, but she is perceptive and endlessly considerate, she knows when you're sad, and she knows how to make you feel better. She is passionate and empathetic; she is angry at injustice, "I hate being a woman in a man’s world. I hate it. I hate the motherfucker that is the patriarchy". She cares deeply even if she sometimes hides it. Emma is one of the best people I've ever met.

Not everyone will get the chance to know Emma, but I want them to. Before you get an insight into our thoughts and feelings, I want you to get an insight into her.

Once you're Emma's friend, you're her friend for life: "I hate making new friends because I have such fierce loyalty to my current ones that I never want to add more because there is simply no need/no one better than my current ones. But I love them once I do make new friends". We have similar outlooks on friendship, how much they mean to us and how much we love them.

Personally, I think Emma has one of the most FUN fun facts of someone you'll ever meet. Her favourite song is The Cave by Mumford and Sons. She set it as her first alarm when she got her first phone in 'middle school' and it has been the ever since EXCEPT for one night when she decided to switch it up and was promptly hit by a truck the next morning, so it’s been The Cave ever since. Isn't that not the best story??

Emma always appears happy, or at least, she wants you to think that she's happy. When I asked her when she was happiest, she said probably the first semester of her junior year of uni, so August-December 2019: "It was pre-covid, pre-my semester in Prague, pre-my parents' divorce, pre-rape, pre-graduation and pre-real-world adult jobs. I was in the midst of amazing film classes, on-set projects and feature documentary gigs whilst working at a golf resort with two of my best friends High School Musical 2 style. Going to the beach every day, working out every day, cooking my own food every day, learning and reading so much. I had a great relationship with both of my parents and siblings and talked to them regularly, I had a solid group of friends that I lived with. Everything was perfect those few months".

The biggest/hardest/best lesson she learnt is how to set boundaries, a lesson everyone everywhere has to learn one way or another. "I’m very very very much still learning this. But learning how and when and how much to use my voice for my own advantage or to meet my own needs is so important. It’s so hard for me to speak up when I want something (whether it's voicing that I want pasta for dinner instead of pizza, or telling my dad I’d like him to stop giving me bashing ugly details from his side of the divorce)." - I told you she was funny.

Emma and I, like most friends, spend a lot of time talking. Both of us work a corporate job in an office, and we tend to get a bit bored sometimes. It's the perfect chance to be in constant communication about any number of topics to distract ourselves from the endless to-do list.

I thought I'd give you a little glimpse into some of our texts. There's a reason why most of these are about what it's like to be a woman in this world. Because we are both women in this world who have and continue to experience the impacts of a heteronormative patriarchal society.

So, why not let you into our conversations?

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Emma: Question for you, does talking to random men at bars such as **** and friends make you uncomfortable? Or do you like shooting the shit with strangers? Any fun in fake flirting or would you rather not engage? Would love your thoughts

Emily: Okay, so, love this question! It depends on the situation, to be honest. I used to love it, I loved the validation of men being interested in me. I would flirt and kiss random men (well not that many but still) for fun/because they were into me/to say I could/did. Nowadays I still like the validation, but I am always hyper-aware of their eyes on me/attempts to get close and a lot of the time it pisses me off. I like chatting with them if they're nice/cool. And I can flirt if I choose to, but it also makes me uncomfortable sometimes. I don't like feeling like an object and that's how some men make me feel. And again, I am just hyper-aware; their presence makes me uncomfortable sometimes and it annoys me that they don't have to be alert. I think it all depends on the person because someone with banter and who is cute, can be so fun. And when I'm drunk and in the right mood shooting the shit with strangers, in general, is so fun. I like making fun of them to their face too. But I still feel on edge because I know they want more from me.

Emma: Yes okay this is all so valid and I agree entirely. It's such an interesting dichotomy of "well do I not like men or do I hate men (meaning am I a lesbian, or do I just have a toxic hateful man disease that taints how I view them)? But it is exhausting being perceived and knowing that basically off the bat the man's intention is to get with you sexually, which just RUINS every interaction. I love meeting girls out cause there is no ulterior motive (and if there is it's not disrespectful or off-putting) but meeting guys out is so hard and I have to be in the right mood to not be too guarded or resentful.

Emily: Yes!!! exactly, I feel safe around the girls because even if a man did just want to chat, it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.

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Emily: I just finished watching the Seven Winters of Tehran. I cried for at least the last 45 minutes, it was soul-crushing devastating. I am spiraling and unsure how to go on with my day. Documentaries are so powerful and so important but it was so hard to watch. So much to talk to you about when you see it.

Emma: Some of the most important docs are ones that seem to send you into a depression like this, so heavy but so important to be aware of. Just so emotionally taxing to be placed in someone's life story so vividly and then have to be ripped back out

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Emma: My thoughts on your blog: You write beautifully (especially the first half/poem) about being in love with someone who doesn't reciprocate. It's an incredibly isolating mind fucking feeling, that can really consume you for years and years. It's so weird how uncontrollable love is, but also gives you hope that when it's requited, it's double as powerful as when it's not. It makes me reflect on my own friends I've probably loved more than as a friend, which is a line I think is so commonly and rightfully blurred. I'm not even sure the difference between platonic and romantic love, because I consider sexual feelings different than either of those, so what's the difference between platonic and romantic? So much to think about. Loving a friend is not for the weak, it's such a learning experience mainly for yourself and how to soothe your own unsatisfied feelings. I love how vulnerable you are!! It's so nice to read and relate, brave girl

Emily: I love that you took the time to tell me your thoughts. It's all-consuming, I got so used to the feeling of it that it was hard to realise that's how I felt. It's so commonly blurred because I do not believe you can have a meaningful loving relationship if you don't have a friendship, there's a reason people say their partner is their best friend. How do you distinguish exactly what's platonic and what's romantic when they're so intertwined? Thank you, it's so scary but so freeing.

Emma: For me, romantic love has more connection, passion, and attachment. But that can also get blurred because I have certain friends I attach to more than others, which then makes me feel like I'm developing feelings when perhaps I'm not. But I don't feel certain passion toward friends that I love so so much, compared to others that I have more romantic love for. Such a tricky world to navigate, especially since this world is built to not openly discuss these sorts of things easily with the involved person or others for that matter!

Emily: I agree! There definitely is a difference, but I feel the same about the attachment thing. I have it the other way where I don't think I have feelings and then I realise oh shit I do. I think the same, I wouldn't have thought to describe it as passion but I guess that is the right word. But you're so right because it's seen as a binary, not a spectrum. I wish we were taught that growing up.

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Emily: I wonder if rape responses such as tonic immobility have become a fundamental part of women's existences. It makes me question generational trauma, and how trauma can fundamentally alter our DNA. Because I am not intending to invalidate the anger some women feel at themselves for not fighting back against their rapists, but it makes me wonder whether that freezing response is ingrained in the very existence of being a woman. A kind of protection that you cannot understand. Because these women can’t understand why that was their response, and that makes me think it's innate. It’s hard because the brain and body are not aligned. Like you said, the brain is telling you that you failed, that you weren’t taking care of yourself. But your body's response in the moment was to try to protect and save you in the way it knows how.

Emma: I think about that a lot too. And expanding on that, genetics has to play a role in driving men to think they are entitled to a woman's body and the subsequent lack of empathy toward how that impacts her. I think there are genetic differences in men and women that we have yet to discover, because how else we can explain such a huge contrast in how we value others and see them as people vs objects?

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Emma: These two men that have been staring me down, even in my reflection in the windows, are getting off at my stop. I stood up and they stood up. I'm on edge and have 12% battery. Do I let them walk first or do I walk first?

Emily: Walk first I think because being in front means you can run towards home to escape if necessary

Emma: Okay I did, they are behind me

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Emma: I'm glad the pain is somewhat relieved. Do you feel like the doctors are taking your pain seriously/listening to everything?

Emily: Thank you. They are, the doctor (a man) was actually the most wonderful, he was so kind in the way he explained everything to me and I feel validated in my pain.

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Emma: Here's my initial rough review of 'How to Have Sex': The portrayal of the men was perfect, especially the one who raped her. I wonder what the actors were thinking to get into character and that mindset. Did the director discuss how to portray someone who crosses boundaries so carefreely? I’ve only seen one other TV show that shows rape and this one did it really well. Not over the top, not horribly traumatic, it just happened and she lay there shocked and silent, how it mostly happens in real life. rape isn't always violent gunpoint dark alleyways, it can just as easily be quietly asleep in her own bed. I liked that they showed it clearly instead of just referencing it. The first rape was a perfect showcase of if there’s no “yes” then it’s no. The blurred lines of coerced sex vs engaged sex. She was not engaged and you could see it on her face that she didn’t want it happening. Just so well done. Makes me feel like they interviewed hundreds of girls to so perfectly capture the experience, but perhaps just because it so perfectly captured my own. Makes it so open-ended in terms of whether she is asexual, lesbian, not ready, etc. The title - How to Have Sex: Such a cool way to set the stage for what is coming - how NOT to have sex. Also, it explored friendship so well, one friend totally disregarded and wasn't in tune at all with her friend's feelings/needs and one made space for her to feel important and that her experience was valid, and helped her show a glimpse of her old self when she grabbed her hand.

Emily: The men were done so well, how his friend suspected but didn’t say anything and especially the lack of empathy. It was horrifying because it was so realistic to what a lot of women experience. I like that it was open-ended because it demonstrates that no matter the reason why she didn't want to have sex (gay, asexual, not ready or any other 100s of reasons), societal norms informed her perception of sex. And that no matter the reason, she was raped anyway. It showed that the depth of a woman's wants, needs and desires were irrelevant to him. Friendship was explored so well here. The power of female friendship but also the pain. The competition, the insecurity, the assumptions. How easy it is to not realise when one of your friends is hurting.

Emma: I love how it addressed friendship and the complexities of feeling isolated even with friends around, and you're so right in that matter, no matter why she was uncomfortable losing her virginity, she was raped bottom line. It was done so gently yet so forcefully somehow.

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Emily: I finished 'Keep sweet, prey & obey'. Fucking insanity. Religion blows my mind, the power the leaders of the cult had over people due to the weaponisation of religion is scary. The use of fear of death/hell/lack of an afterlife is such a scary manipulation tactic. How can these women believe that they are second-class citizens and that god says these men have a right to their bodies? Made my heart hurt when the girls talked about the fact they had no idea what sex was, and only found out when their husbands were raping them. How did these fathers and mothers give up their daughters that way? It’s inconceivable.

Emma: All these people have been brainwashed into it, yet how do you liberate them from a life that they think they want? These poor girls are born into this life and it's all they've ever known. No exposure to the outside world, science or anything. The women suffer this abuse, but it's cyclical, they abuse their children who grow up to be abusers themselves. They know the pain they're causing their children and yet they believe it's necessary, that it's god's will.

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Emily: The most devastating article - https://time.com/6303701/a-rape-in-mississippi/

Emma: So many thoughts but I am heavy. You’re right, the last two paragraphs are devastating. How her face goes blank when she has to feed the baby. And that all she says to other girls is to be careful outside. How can a religious person claim that being raped and being forced to have a child at 13 was god's plan for her? What a brutal life, she is going to be completely ruined. I want to start an underground railway, how do we find these families before it's too late?? I'd drive and pick them up and house them and drive them back so they could access a legal abortion.

Emily: You could tell how sad and traumatised she is just by the way the journalist was talking to her and her replies. Her life is ruined and she had no control over that, how can anyone think that that is okay? She’s a child. how can a child be made to have a child?

Emma: One of the worst parts about rape is the inability to express/put into words what happened and how you feel, so imagine being 13 and not even understanding sex or your body and then having that happen. That would just lead to ultimate confusion and depression.

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Emily: What do you value most?

Emma: I value the times I feel content. I am almost always either anxiously overstimulated or deathly bored, rarely the peaceful in-between I think of as being “content”. But when I am content it feels so still and restful and pleasant. This can happen when I’m doing a puzzle alone or walking home from work or hanging with my best friend girlfriends, and I very much value those moments with myself and others.

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Sometimes our conversations leave me a little hopeless. There's not often either of us look for the good in the world, that we think or see the best in people. That's no one's fault, experiences often inform our perception of the world around us.

I wanted to know what gives Emma hope. "Kids give me hope. What does not give me hope is doom-scrolling NYT headlines, such as today’s, “A mix of devastating wildfires, tropical storms, mudslides and heat waves foreshadows a future of intensified extremes as the world warms.” But then this makes me spiral and think that we should not be having more kids in this world. But back to the hope question, kids give me hope with their innocence and curiosity. They have adorable, genuine questions about life and the way things work. They often catch me off guard with questions I’ve never even considered (except maybe when I was 4 myself and don’t remember that free train of thought now). To be able to see life through their eyes again gives me hope that we can have a (hopefully) positive impact on how they learn about the world around them for the first time."

Emma, thank you for being my muse. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, and now, with the world (maybe the abyss is a better word for it).